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July 13, 2009



This is when I knew I was done in WoW. Crazy experiments like this. I used RAF to really power level some horde toons and then realized "what for?" but I understand the draw of the challenge at first.

Same thing in Everquest 1. near the end I was a pro at power leveling in Paludal Caverns with a druid. The game became less of playing the game and more of thinking up crazy ways to level.

Alysianah aka Saylah

@Hudson - Excuse me, did you just call me crazy? :-)


Saylah, I just realized you had quite a few posts beneath the "shingle-hanging" one. I hadn't really looked down below it -- I didn't know it was a sticky-type that would always stay on top.


In BC there was a definite need to revisit each of the 5-man dungeons in order to grind each rep for each faction. Initially you needed to get to revered in order to then access the heroic versions, but they eventually changed that to honored. Still, there were many items like specific weapons, or recipes that required exalted rep and you simply needed to run each dungeon dozens of times in order to get that rep up. Or if you were lucky, have the money to buy rep turn-in items to do it/supplement. My main up to WotLK was my Druid and I needed the two-handed mace from Cenarian so I ended up running Steam Vaults close to 30 times before I got to exalted.

The biggest difference between the 5-man content in BC and WotLK is that the 5-man content post-raiding means even less now than it did then. In BC there were still items that were very useful from the factions that greatly helped you in Karazhan. That really isn't the case in WotLK and is the reason behind the upcoming emblem changes in patch 3.2. They're trying to give people more of a reason to run the 5-man content again (does that really make sense right now with the instance population problems??).

Anyway, the only real reason right now to run instances at all is to rep grind, or for the achievements. There is plenty of gear attainable outside of the dungeons to get you into Naax.

The problem with the Black Temple was largely the same problem with the original Naax. Or more aptly, it was the "problem" with linear raiding. BT required you to have cleared a great deal of previous raid content prior to the "nerf". Prior to the change that enabled you to walk in without the "key" there was a very, very, small percentage of raiders that were actually able to get into BT. That changed after the "nerf", but that was well after you had stopped playing. You can see how Blizzard addressed that type of problem in WotLK by designing a series of raids without keying requirements (except EoE). I think that is not only good for individual raiders, but good for the game in general. Instead of forcing players to jump through specific hoops to get into the next raid, the key factor instead becomes gear (wasn't it always though?). Also, the raids now overlap more than they did previously. You don't really need to fully clear the previous level of raid content before you can start on the next. Similiar to what we first started experiencing with SSC and TK.

I went off on a tangent here.... :)

Alysianah aka Saylah

@Mal - Hmm, maybe I should just take it down. I'm posting more than I originally thought I would. You're probably not the only person who hasn't realized there are posts.

@Iggep - What you've described is part of the reason I stopped raiding and left WOW. There was always a gear-check then you had to do the key-check, run them repeatedly mastering them, run them repeatedly to get gear for the next gear-check and farm continuously for gold to pay repairs and comps. After a while I just didn't find any of that fun or entertaining. I would like to see all the 5-mans though and it would be cool to "solo" them.


@Saylah, is a multi-class 5-box setup such as you describe the usual?
It's my understanding that having 5 separate chars each with a different skill set is considered too hard to control- that's why you see stuff like 4xMages usually.

However if you are going for a multi-char setup...

"Protection Paladin (tank), Affliction Warlock (DPS), Arcane/Frost Mage (DPS/CC/AOE), Shadow Priest (DPS/utility) and Disc/Holy Priest (healer)."

I would look at going for more synergy, heavy nuking and survivability (in case a mob decides to go after a dps or healer before you have time to react with your tank).

Tank: yes paladins are great but DKs are even better. A tanking unholy DK will give you: +13% spell dmg on target (Ebon Plague), improved survivability vs. spells for self and group, even better AoE tanking than Paladins (well for now, who knows in 3.2...)

DPS: Moonkin, Shaman (Elemental), Mage or Lock (destruction). Battle-rez from Moonkin, Heroism+totems from Shaman, and all 3 caster types will benefit from the DK's Ebon Plague and from the same type of shaman totems and all 3 can AoE although you do lose a bit in that department compared to the setup you suggested.

Plus if I'm not mistaken Moonkin gives +hit on target, same as s-priest. Plus in a pinch, the moonkin can OT and both the Moonkin and Shaman can off-heal.

Healer - tough call, but if you're going for 5-man content anything should work well. Sure, why not a priest :)

Everything I'm writing btw is not from experience, I don't have the financing to multi-box. So take what I advise with a grain of salt :)

Best of luck,

Alysianah aka Saylah

@Solid - Yes, I think the route I'm attempting is less common than 5 of the same class using different specs. I had a devil of a time coordinating in the Paladin to tank. His behavior and timing is different from the 3 caster types but was easier to integrate than a druid tank.

My line-up is based on what I have available already sitting at 70 that can join in the group. I have three 70s with great gear - Warlock, Paladin and Druid. I don't want to level up anything other than the trio I started out boxing. Had I started off with the idea of 5-boxing upfront, I might have chosen differently. At this juncture I decided on the 5-man of convenience.

When the trio hits Outland I'll have two 70s boxing in with 60s. This will give me the luxury of learning to 5-box the higher end content with a slight advantage. By the time I have five 70s and move to Northrend, I should have my act down.

One advantage I should consider from your comment is Moonkin DPS. A downside is that Moonkin DPS from what I know is VERY gear dependent, much more so than any of the other caster classes. However, having 3 characters that require cloth can be troublesome. Using a Moonkin would allow me to have on less cloth wearer when trying to divide the gear/loot.

As far as the Druid dropping to OT. I don't think my prowess would allow me to survive that situation. The coordination and preparation for swapping out like that would be hard to box. If all goes bad, I'd just wipe and with the Warlock soul stone, the Priest or Paladin will just rez the group.


Too bad you didn't roll on my server (Durotan). Yes, I decided to start playing WoW again about a month ago. This coincides with my new job that is 2500 miles away from my family, thus I have too much free time until next summer. So, I got my warlock to 80 and have raided Naxx a couple of times. I also have a 70 hunter/70 rogue/72 Death Knight/27 paladin. I would love to run some stuff with you, never really got the chance to do so in ROM. What server are you on/going to be on for Outland and Northrend?


Alysianah aka Saylah

Ah the way from family work assignments. Been there and done that for a couple of years, many moons ago. Definitely a good time to have a love MMO. I wasn't playing MMOs back than. I spent a vast amount of time reading.

I'm on Whisperwind which is where I'll be staying. Today's post explains that I've moved even my personal 70s there so that's where the boxing will commence. I'd be more than happy to drop one of my characters for a real live body in 5-mans. Keep tabs on me and you'll know if and when the trio hits Outlands.



Drop me an email with your characters names and faction (I assume alliance?).

Alysianah aka Saylah

@Roma - My information is
Main trio character: Alysiaa (only one whose chat I'd see)

Level 70s bopping around that you might see on when I'm crafting stuff for the tri-box: Vellora, Baalbek or Aylissia.

EverQuest Accounts

I believe all sorts of experimentation can be done after you become adept at something. This is quite a detail and comprehensive posting on Multi-Boxing WOW.

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