PVE + PVP + CC = Years of Tears

Wow, Blizzard is still finding new and exciting ways to nerf the Fear mechanic?  That saying about how "some things never change" certainly applies in this case.  Good Lord, why hasn't it been removed and replaced with something more palatable.  How long can you really have people crying over a crowd control mechanic before you just say...  I won't say what came to mind.  LOL

Should I be surprised that it’s been years of tears about a crowd control mechanic in World of Warcraft?  As someone who played a Warlock from BETA, to release and then as my main for three years before choosing another class, I’ve heard all there is to hear about Fear.  I played on a PVP server from day one and I’ve experienced more than I want to know about being stun-locked.  No one complains about these mechanics in a PVE context.  It’s all about how they play out in PVP that pisses players off. 

I was not a "lead with Fear and DOT until you die" sort of Warlock, unless I had no other option.  I played a Warlock back when they were a joke and the first thing dead on the field.  I stuck with it because casters with pets are my favorite class and the Warlock was fun to solo.  Playing with one doing PVE content was great.  Fighting one was annoying once they became a wee bit OP, if I wasn’t on my own Warlock at the time.  *Smile*

I think this boils down to something very simple that Blizzard can't easily fix.  If they could, it wouldn’t still be causing so many tears all these years later.  What works just fine in the context of PVE can become a huge annoyance in PVP.  Mostly, PVP and crowd control don’t mix well.  Dying while you’re not in control of your avatar or are immobilized sucks.  You’re never going to make that go down smoothly.  Something less annoying would be every class having a variant of a snare that breaks on damage or a skill that protects them for a short time.  You can’t make someone feel okay about dying while incapacitated.  Just ask Sister Fran about rogues in PVP and you’ll get an ear full.  *Smile*  Save the more flamboyant crowd-control spells for PVE and let’s call it a day.

I had to stop and laugh when I ran across that link while Googling for somethine else.  It boggles my mind that crying about Fear is still going on in World of Warcraft.

Comments

[Capn John]

I hated Rogues Stunlocking me in PvP. I hated being Sheeped. I hated being Feared. I hated losing complete control of my control.

If I got rooted, or slowed in some way, fine, because at least I could still shoot, and my Warrior killed more than one opponent with his Gun or Bow when they rooted him and ran away.

Once another Warrior and I shared a laugh when we double-teamed/double-Rended a Mage who Froze us in place and ran away, only to bleed to death :D

So I hated losing control of my character...then I rolled a Rogue. I never stunlocked though, never tried to, other than the initial Cheap Shot stun, but to me it seemed more efficient to Ambush because I could do a lot more damage and thus kill my opponent sooner.

Then I worked out to do a Stun Lock -SS-Kidney Shot-Backstab combo and OMFG! Mobs die FFast!!! when you hit them with this. I honed my Stun Locking skills in PvE before trying them out in PvP, and they worked just as well there. After being Stun Locked/Feared/MC'd/Sheeped for so long on my Warrior and Hunter, being able to Stun Lock kill a Priest or Mage (or even another Rogue) was just so satisfying.

That said, if all forms of CC were completely and absolutely 100% removed from PvP, I wouldn't be complaining. Of course I don't play WoW anymore anyway, other than my 10-day Trial every now & then ;)

[Alysianah aka Saylah]

I didn't like being chain sheeped or rooted, at least you could regained health sheeped or fight back or heal yourself rooted. The other stuff was annoying and clearly still is annoying to people. :-)

[Melf_Himself]

I turned out to have lengthy thoughts on this, and posted them here:

http://word-of-shadow.blogspot.com/2009/04/cc-in-pvp.html

Basically, I think that with good game design most of the problems with CC in PvP can be overcome.

[Van Hemlock]

Not a fan of any gameplay that makes you lose control of your character. As Melf explains, GW does well there; at all stages you can still contribute - hellish debuffing, but no actual loss of control. Theres something wrong with other palyers having a button they can press which means you may as well go make a cup of tea!

LotRO does a clever thing; the stuns seem to apply a stun immunity too; a 3s Stun will then give the victim a 3s Stun Immunity buff immediately after, making the wretched and insidious practice of stun-locking impossible - you're only paralyzed at most 50% of the time, which seems fair; both parties get to fight!

[Spinks]

I think that as with a lot of PvP, it's fun if you do it to other people, less fun when other people do it to you. Playing a CC class in PvP is really fun.

Crowd Control means that a fight isn't always determined by who brings the biggest zerg. And for some people, that's a bonus.

[Iggep]

Are familiar with the phenomenon whereby when you buy a new car you start to see that same make of car all over the place? Prior to you buying the car you never seemed to have seen it anywhere? :) Same goes for QQ on the forums.

Believe me, there has been plenty of QQ over stunlocking too.

[Alysianah aka Saylah]

@Melf - Will pop over, give it a read and reply there.

@Van - I think that is why there's much complaint about those two in particular (fear & stunlocking) because you can't fight back. Who wants to die when you didn't get a chance to defend yourself.

@Spinks - I don't buy that one. Fearing or stunlocking happens a single player at a time. If a group is zerging, fear chaining or stunlocking a few people isn't going to stop that zerg, it's just annoying those few people.

I remember my years as Alliance in AV. When we were about to lose, I'd make my way into the chamber with Van and hide in the corner. Just as they were about to pull him, I'd do a sacrifice Howl (mass fear) which borked their pull. This caused them to pull the guards, wrong people get aggro, some people die and they might have to restart the pull.

I died of course but would use my trinket to come back and rinse repeat. Now this never stopped them but it held the at bay for a bit and nothing more. While in a group setting that's a tactical use. Me chain fearing someone while DOT them up for death - few players could survive thru Warlock DOTs when I played, meant certain death. I mean, you were going to die PERIOD. Not cool.

@Iggep - Yep, I know that scenario but don't buy it in this case. Players have been crying about Fear for 4 yrs. Blizzard has been trying to nerf Fear for 4 years. I think that's a problem. :-)

[Virlomi]

PVP and crowd control don't mix well? CC is very much a part of top end arenas, actually... Fear is getting the crap out of it nerfed on the PTR right now, yes, but Blizzard often goes from one extreme to the other, so I expect it to balance out in the end.

I'm not sure why you care enough to criticize anyway when you haven't even been playing for quite a long time it seems. >_>

[Alysianah aka Saylah]

@Viri - For the reasons I stated. It's been 4 years and Fear is still complained about, which I find odd and comical. I don't think that disabling CC and PVP go well together which is why people are still crying on both sides of the Fear argument all these years later.

Besides, this isn't about WOW as much as, exactly what I said - it's a PVP thing that I think should be done differently to avoid the "years of tears". :-)

[Nef]

Played a warlock from beta up to burning crusade. Never had to use fear much in PvP since I was destruction. Fear isn't a problem, nor is any CC that causes you to lose control of your character. They're all good and they have counters.

Roll a warrior and you'll see how easy it is to take out warlocks, did it myself quite a bit. I think a lot of people just have a problem about not being able to always kill something, or knowing that someone out there bested them.

[neeraj sharma]

hi............
Locs can fear people for good CC in PVP, and on some occasions, in instances and raids too. They can provide soul stones for the resers incase of wipes, and health stones for potion like health returns for everybody else. And they can summon people directly into an instance as well.

For pvp, Frost mages are generally fairly common for the utility and kitablitly, and Siphon life / soul link spec for locks is fairly common for the survivablity of it.

For instances, Fire mages are fairly common for the damage, and destro or sacrifice speced locks are fairly common for the same reasons.

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godgift
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Anybody know where the World of Warcraft European servers are located? Someone said they are all in Britain but I am not sure. Would they have some in Germany, some in Finland etc?

I am trying to do a business plan for my own massive multiplayer game and was wonder how they spread out the resources.