PVP for No Honor or Reward – Come Get Some Son

Even though I don’t consider myself a hardcore PVP player, I do enjoy the excitement, danger and adrenaline rush from being on a PVP server.  I did a tiny bit of Kingdom vs. Kingdom (KVK) in Asherons Call 2 (AC2).  It wasn’t until very late in my game play that I started going there with the guild.  There were no rewards to be gained other than bragging rights.

The initial implementation of WOW PVP didn’t have any rewards to be gained by engaging in World PVP and all that existed was World PVP.  I know that I’m not alone when I say, those were the glory days of PVP.  It was frantic, exciting and complete chaos in the hotly contested zones.  Lagfest and Illidown instability aside, it was as much fun, as any 40-man raid Blizzard ever designed.  The unpredictability of facing off against other players in a freeform manner just can’t be replicated in a Battleground or Arena.  There were no rules about what you could and could not do.  There were no contrived objectives.  The rule of law was, if it’s red make it dead.

Players of all classes and levels could and did participate.  Low level toons got slaughtered.  And if you were actually trying to quest during those times – good luck and may the gods of Azeroth be with you.  I wasn’t max level during the time of which I speak.  I was late 40s and early 50s when the first BG landed.  In my 40s I still went to fight at Southshore and Crossroads.  I showed up to defend Ironforge and Stormwind. 

In the beginning I just died a lot which was fine by me – once more into the breach!  Even if I was nothing more than a diversion, I served a purpose.  If I could take one or two Horde with me to their deaths, it was all the better.  I miss those days.  It added another element of life to the landscape.  It added to the immersion.  It solidified the back story of existing in a world that was in conflict.

I’m sure lots of people didn’t like it because of the disruptive impact.  To them I’d say, don’t roll on PVP servers if you don’t want to PVP.  Being ganked and camped would annoy anyone.  High level players who go out of their way to grief lower level players suck. However, I’m not sympathetic to people who complain about World PVP on a freaking PVP server.  In the end, people who felt World PVP was disruptive got their wish.  In came Battlegrounds and little by little the World PVP died.  I can’t blame it solely on the Battleground mechanic, although that moved the conflict into contrived rat cages. No, it was the introduction of epics and the level of loot whorism that exists in this game - something which I’ve never seen the likes of outside of WOW.

When it was mostly just the titles, people still engaged in World PVP. A kill was a kill and honor gain was honor gained.  When you needed a high amount of honor AND specific BG marks to purchase the Honor Rewards, it was the death of real PVP.  Even still I’ve done my fair share of BGs on all my toons.  Once I gave up raiding it became a viable progression mechanism and reward system.  If that was their master plan then it worked.  However, I doubt they planned for it to become the war of welfare epics that it has become.  And I despise Kelgan for introducing that vulgar reference into the WOW community vernacular.

I still miss the spontaneous long PVP sieges of old.  And clearly, I’m not the only one.  Yesterday I went to take my Mage to do WSG for the first time.  I was a bit bored and wanted to do something other than level.  The character had just hit level 38 so I figured I’d check out my first BGs.  I changed my frost spec just a bit and headed into Ironforge to queue up.  It didn’t take long to get into a game and what do I find?  A bugged session where both flags had only appeared once and after the Horde had capped the first flag, only the Alliance flag had re-spawned.  People had put in tickets but after two hours there was still no resolution yet the true PVPers kept right on playing.

What where people doing? PLAYER VS. PLAYER.  When I joined it was an all out mid field battle – kill and be killed.  No honor was being awarded and there was no way to “win” the game, yet they fought on. There were more than a few twinked out rouges stun-locking the shit out of people.  However, by and large, people were just matching their skill and wit against their opponents.  Before I forget, I want to give a massive shout out to Druids that shift out of form to heal, Priests who at least apply HOTs and bubble people even if they don’t want to heal and melee who charge in to help you, even when they have less than a sliver of life left themselves!  For the record, I hate hunters who guard without placing traps.  That’s always been a pet peeve of mine. A hunter who doesn’t use traps is like a rogue that won’t stealth – complete noobsauce.

Initially, I died quite a bit.  Soloing mobs is very different from defending yourself against another player, some of whom are higher in level and better geared.  I tweaked the sequence of spells and moved things around on my hotbar.  I changed which buffs my macro applied and over time, I fell into my stride.  The Mage class is definitely a glass cannon but we do have enough tricks up our sleeves to survive situations that other casters can not.  There is no counter to Warlocks DOTing you up and then fearing you while they run in the opposite direction.  If your Dampen Magic and Mana Shield can’t absorb enough of the damage until you can reach safety to bandage and eat, you’re just dead – oh well, that’s life.

However, if you just fight through the encounter giving it everything you have – try every trick, use every cool down and by degrees, make your way closer to friendlies, I found that you survive more often than not.  Or at least, that’s how it worked out for me.  No one ran by me and left me to die while they tried to seek safety.  Healers didn’t stand there trying to do DPS instead of healing.  Why? Because everyone that was still in there fighting wanted to be there.  These were people who PVP to PVP and PVPers don’t just go through the motions when presented with a real opportunity to match skills.  I formed personal vendettas and sought out certain players for vengeance.  They returned the favor in like fashion and a midst the KEK, LOL and /spit being typed by many, it became a grudge match.

Of course we had people coming and going but the majority of the names remained the same for the 3+ hours I was in there.  We quickly explained to the whiners that there was no way to win so if they were just looking for honor and marks, they could get out, take the 15 minute debuff and queue for something else.  I tried leaving three or four times myself.  I was starving and it was getting late.  Yet each time I said goodbye something fun or exciting would jump off and I was back in it again.  Finally, I just had to go.  The bladder wouldn’t wait any longer.   I said my goodbyes and left feeling more exhilarated by a session on WOW than I’ve felt in a VERY long time. You can see for yourself that the game was 7+hours and my Mage, Nazeryth, did pretty damned good in the damage department.  Good times.  Good times.  Long live real PVP.

Comments

[Khan]

Another great post. I remember the days of Southshore vs Tarren Mills. I quested through there Horde side on a PvP server. The thrill was something else. I also participated in the Tarren Mills / Southshore battles. We raided Darkshore and Redridge (I forget the town name). Those were the days. I loved the original Alterac Valley too - the ones that lasted seventeen hours and were combinations of players and NPC troop movements and bombardments from bats and eagles. I was in one again before I left ... what a disappointment. The Horde rode up one side of the map and the Alliance down the other. Anyone that fought was yelled at to "stop wasting time and get to the bunker!" It was all PvE. We even ignored the Alliance when they rode right past us.

I think your analysis is correct: it's the need for loot that killed PvP: players want more loot, better loot, different colored loot - not just based on honor but on marks from battlegrounds I learned to hate.

I'm not a big PvPer but when I join a battleground I kind of expect to fight other players. PvP is why I'm there. I learned pretty quickly though, that my place in the new AV was wearing my PvE tanking set and keeping aggro on the boss.

[Saylah]

OMG Kahn, I couldn't wait to get into AV. By the time I hit the minimum level the Warlock sucked a whole lot less and I was itching for massive battles with a bit less lag. I remember saying hello in chat the first time I queued. I was happy and excite like a new puppy. I guess it showed too much when I said, "Hello World, level 51 Warlock reporting for duty!" I was promptly told, "Shut the hell up noob!" I laughed and kept going back for more.

I remember more times than not, playing in AV for hours, logging off to eat dinner then rejoining the same battle! It was hysterical and people were serious about winning. No one dared to suggest we just give up to get it over with and get the marks.

The NPCs were awesome and the battles hotly contested. I remember spirit walking if you joined too late and couldn't make it past blockades. I remember summoning players to Drek. I remember running along side guildmates who would try to protect me because they were at max level. PVP was one of the rare opportunities where you could interact with the max level players who were already raiding while you were still lower.

Yeah mahn, it was good times.

[Gaming Diva]

That's a great article.

I started going into the battles when I hit level 34 with my Alliance hunter I'm looking forward to doing that with my Horde toons currently my highest is my priest. I was in Tarren Mill, briefly, this evening. I came right in the midst of a battle. Alliance was their were attacking, lots of skeletons, fighting on both sides. Interstingly enough today was the first day I was killed by Alliance with my level 23 priest.

The Alliance were in their 70's but I did have fun healing horde toons and casting a few spells (like they had much impact) before the spotted me and killed me. That happened a few times, lol.:-)

I agree if you don't want to engage in pvp then don't get on a pvp server. This past week I did create a toon on a regular server just to get that experience but all my other toons are on pvp servers. :-)

[Saylah]

@Diva - I wonder if you're on my server. I heard there was a massive battle going at SS/TM but I was running some guildies thru Uldaman. Imagine that! I stepped outside my solo box and answered the call of lowbies begging for a run thru. It was a fun diversion and they were ever so grateful. It made me smile on the inside to see them all excited about the blue drops. :-)

[Khan]

I was the same way with AV. Level 51 and couldn't wait. I ignored all the "get out of AV, noobs" and ran to the front anyway. 51 warrior on the front lines ... yeah, I got crushed a lot but it was fun.

Ha! I remember the spirit run thing too. And the blood turn-ins to summon the big guy, the critical timing needed to get the reavers on the move to smash through the expected zerging at the bridge, the inevitable druid counter-offensive ....

That was a really great battleground.

But the Bloodrager was right in the field of strife - we'd be making progress until someone that wanted the Ice Barbed Spear trained him into us. Kind of an apt bit of symbolism of what Blizz did to the PvP in that game.

Sadly, I think the token-based awards made it an untenable means of getting honor / tokens so they had to shorten it by removing the motivation to actually fight. To bring it back now would be a 180 degree change in direction to the way a lot of WoW works these days.

Sorry ....

I will not babble on other people's blogs.
I will not babble on other people's blogs.
I will not babble on other people's blogs.
...

:)

[Gaming Diva]

It's nice to step outside that solo box now and again. :-) I do it also. My low level priest 23 gets asked to help out a lot, mainly to serve as a healer and here I was thinking I would have a little break as a low level, lol.

It seems as if I missed out on a lot of great battles I did not start playing WOW until a few months ago it seems as if the people at TM might have missed the battles you were talking about. I logged back on after commenting here and they were still fighting. That was at least three hours later. Most of the same people were still fighting naturally I thought about this article. :-)

"Soloing mobs is very different from defending yourself against another player"
I definitely agree with this statement. It is a completely different experience. I think it can be a lot more challenging especially when you are up against a good player. :-)

[Jeds]

I've just discovered your blog and I want to praise you for finding and writing the words that I could not. Every post of yours I read says something to me about my WoW experience. Like you I started pre-tBC and really enjoyed my time levelling up, though I levelled Horde side. My experience of levelling in and around the Barrens, seeing my first mounted Tauren at Crossroads (and having him give me a couple of bags to help me out), the unadulerated JOY at gaining my own mount and playing "Barrens Cavalry" with a guildie every time Crossroads was attacked... Laughing and loving every minute of it. I remember with fondness the AV grind, both the length of games - log off one night, log on the next morning to the *same match* - and the rep collection because you wanted that Frostwolf and The Unstoppable Force.

That same toon, a Tauren Warrior, is now 70 with a huge number of racked up PvP kills and decked out in all the gear I can get from BGs. While I was into raiding pre-tBC (and loved it, MC rocked!) a change in my lifestyle means I can't keep the pressing schedule that raiding guilds want, even so-called "casual" ones.

And now PvP is burning me out too. The lack of understanding by so many about how each BG works, the lack of teamwork despite best efforts, and the "e-sport" Arenas just leave me cold.

I went back to "the dark side" and levelled an Alliance toon, to experience that side. And like you, once I got to 70 it was like... well, now what? As a warrior I found that I was being channeled into one path - if I want to progress, I had to be prot. While I don't mind tanking, I dislike the attitude that people give tanks and the requirement that a tank know every pull, all the time. That's not fun to me.

I've signed up for Age of Conan, and I hope that it brings with it that old sense of new wonder. Because WoW has turned into a grind, and even levelling a new toon just seems like so hard a task when the end is just the same.

[Saylah]

@Jeds - glad you found me and are enjoying the blog. I simultaneously love and hate WOW/Blizzard. :-)

[Capn John]

Hi Saylah.

I made a blog post and referenced your WSG screenshot. You can view my blog entry here (assuming the link works ;) http://capnjohnsblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/improving-wows-pvp-there-are-two-kinds.html
and the preview shows it should :)

[Saylah]

Hi John, On my way to check it out.