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April 27, 2008



Another great post. I remember the days of Southshore vs Tarren Mills. I quested through there Horde side on a PvP server. The thrill was something else. I also participated in the Tarren Mills / Southshore battles. We raided Darkshore and Redridge (I forget the town name). Those were the days. I loved the original Alterac Valley too - the ones that lasted seventeen hours and were combinations of players and NPC troop movements and bombardments from bats and eagles. I was in one again before I left ... what a disappointment. The Horde rode up one side of the map and the Alliance down the other. Anyone that fought was yelled at to "stop wasting time and get to the bunker!" It was all PvE. We even ignored the Alliance when they rode right past us.

I think your analysis is correct: it's the need for loot that killed PvP: players want more loot, better loot, different colored loot - not just based on honor but on marks from battlegrounds I learned to hate.

I'm not a big PvPer but when I join a battleground I kind of expect to fight other players. PvP is why I'm there. I learned pretty quickly though, that my place in the new AV was wearing my PvE tanking set and keeping aggro on the boss.


OMG Kahn, I couldn't wait to get into AV. By the time I hit the minimum level the Warlock sucked a whole lot less and I was itching for massive battles with a bit less lag. I remember saying hello in chat the first time I queued. I was happy and excite like a new puppy. I guess it showed too much when I said, "Hello World, level 51 Warlock reporting for duty!" I was promptly told, "Shut the hell up noob!" I laughed and kept going back for more.

I remember more times than not, playing in AV for hours, logging off to eat dinner then rejoining the same battle! It was hysterical and people were serious about winning. No one dared to suggest we just give up to get it over with and get the marks.

The NPCs were awesome and the battles hotly contested. I remember spirit walking if you joined too late and couldn't make it past blockades. I remember summoning players to Drek. I remember running along side guildmates who would try to protect me because they were at max level. PVP was one of the rare opportunities where you could interact with the max level players who were already raiding while you were still lower.

Yeah mahn, it was good times.

Gaming Diva

That's a great article.

I started going into the battles when I hit level 34 with my Alliance hunter I'm looking forward to doing that with my Horde toons currently my highest is my priest. I was in Tarren Mill, briefly, this evening. I came right in the midst of a battle. Alliance was their were attacking, lots of skeletons, fighting on both sides. Interstingly enough today was the first day I was killed by Alliance with my level 23 priest.

The Alliance were in their 70's but I did have fun healing horde toons and casting a few spells (like they had much impact) before the spotted me and killed me. That happened a few times, lol.:-)

I agree if you don't want to engage in pvp then don't get on a pvp server. This past week I did create a toon on a regular server just to get that experience but all my other toons are on pvp servers. :-)


@Diva - I wonder if you're on my server. I heard there was a massive battle going at SS/TM but I was running some guildies thru Uldaman. Imagine that! I stepped outside my solo box and answered the call of lowbies begging for a run thru. It was a fun diversion and they were ever so grateful. It made me smile on the inside to see them all excited about the blue drops. :-)


I was the same way with AV. Level 51 and couldn't wait. I ignored all the "get out of AV, noobs" and ran to the front anyway. 51 warrior on the front lines ... yeah, I got crushed a lot but it was fun.

Ha! I remember the spirit run thing too. And the blood turn-ins to summon the big guy, the critical timing needed to get the reavers on the move to smash through the expected zerging at the bridge, the inevitable druid counter-offensive ....

That was a really great battleground.

But the Bloodrager was right in the field of strife - we'd be making progress until someone that wanted the Ice Barbed Spear trained him into us. Kind of an apt bit of symbolism of what Blizz did to the PvP in that game.

Sadly, I think the token-based awards made it an untenable means of getting honor / tokens so they had to shorten it by removing the motivation to actually fight. To bring it back now would be a 180 degree change in direction to the way a lot of WoW works these days.

Sorry ....

I will not babble on other people's blogs.
I will not babble on other people's blogs.
I will not babble on other people's blogs.


Gaming Diva

It's nice to step outside that solo box now and again. :-) I do it also. My low level priest 23 gets asked to help out a lot, mainly to serve as a healer and here I was thinking I would have a little break as a low level, lol.

It seems as if I missed out on a lot of great battles I did not start playing WOW until a few months ago it seems as if the people at TM might have missed the battles you were talking about. I logged back on after commenting here and they were still fighting. That was at least three hours later. Most of the same people were still fighting naturally I thought about this article. :-)

"Soloing mobs is very different from defending yourself against another player"
I definitely agree with this statement. It is a completely different experience. I think it can be a lot more challenging especially when you are up against a good player. :-)


I've just discovered your blog and I want to praise you for finding and writing the words that I could not. Every post of yours I read says something to me about my WoW experience. Like you I started pre-tBC and really enjoyed my time levelling up, though I levelled Horde side. My experience of levelling in and around the Barrens, seeing my first mounted Tauren at Crossroads (and having him give me a couple of bags to help me out), the unadulerated JOY at gaining my own mount and playing "Barrens Cavalry" with a guildie every time Crossroads was attacked... Laughing and loving every minute of it. I remember with fondness the AV grind, both the length of games - log off one night, log on the next morning to the *same match* - and the rep collection because you wanted that Frostwolf and The Unstoppable Force.

That same toon, a Tauren Warrior, is now 70 with a huge number of racked up PvP kills and decked out in all the gear I can get from BGs. While I was into raiding pre-tBC (and loved it, MC rocked!) a change in my lifestyle means I can't keep the pressing schedule that raiding guilds want, even so-called "casual" ones.

And now PvP is burning me out too. The lack of understanding by so many about how each BG works, the lack of teamwork despite best efforts, and the "e-sport" Arenas just leave me cold.

I went back to "the dark side" and levelled an Alliance toon, to experience that side. And like you, once I got to 70 it was like... well, now what? As a warrior I found that I was being channeled into one path - if I want to progress, I had to be prot. While I don't mind tanking, I dislike the attitude that people give tanks and the requirement that a tank know every pull, all the time. That's not fun to me.

I've signed up for Age of Conan, and I hope that it brings with it that old sense of new wonder. Because WoW has turned into a grind, and even levelling a new toon just seems like so hard a task when the end is just the same.


@Jeds - glad you found me and are enjoying the blog. I simultaneously love and hate WOW/Blizzard. :-)

Capn John

Hi Saylah.

I made a blog post and referenced your WSG screenshot. You can view my blog entry here (assuming the link works ;) http://capnjohnsblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/improving-wows-pvp-there-are-two-kinds.html
and the preview shows it should :)


Hi John, On my way to check it out.

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The Smithes

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