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June 21, 2007



No joke. My situation is a bit more extreme...I have a very demanding job and I have only two nights a week (Friday and Saturday night) during which I can play reliably. That means that instances, etc. are very difficult for me as I have such a small window of availability. The only way for me to advance is to PvP for gear, and that means basically farming honor in AV and tokens when I need them.

I would *love* to see more content. Sadly, though, I'm creeping through it at a snail's pace.


@Arawn...There was a thread going in the general forums saying that it's the excessively good PVP gear that's ruining the end-game. I was going to respond that the end game ruined the end game, and PVP just happens to be where the refugees went. But I wasn't in the mood to debate on the forums, so I post here instead. :-)


PVP gear is on par with Kara gear. It is not up to Gruul, SSC on up.

The gear disparity is coming again to wow once the hardcores to get to/done with Hyjaal Boack temple on farm status.

PvP gear is equal to about tier 4. When tier 6 shows up in a few months... it will be like pre TBC.

I've cancelled 2 of 3 WoW accounts myself. Waiting to see what Blizzcon August has instore for WoW. If it isn't something for us casuals, I'll be shutting off WoW for good.


I never thought I'd find myself as a PVP player. When I was leveling I hated being ganked and was much of a ganker once I was at level 60. I did participate in any and all world PVP that broke out around me and I loved it.

It wasn't until my priest hit 70 and sucked at healing that I turned to PVP as my exclusive content. There's something fun about AV and it's a nice haven if you don't want to be forced into min/max cookie cutter specs. It's much more the your toon your choice. If you die, oh well, rez and have at it again. The other BGs suck so bad, I only do them when I need the actual marks. I wish there was more AV like BGs and even quests and lore - just not the lenghty ones they had in there before.


I am definately a raid refugee LOL. Describes me to a T (although I've never understood that idiom, but oh well). Honestly, for those who think arena/pvp gear is ruining endgame, I think they'd change their tune if all that stamina disappeared off their locks and their kara raid started running around half naked.


This is one of the best pieces of writing from you yet, Saylah. I have been playing WOW for nearly 5 months, have no level 70's yet (lvl 59 hunter right now and a few lower level alts), and have never been on a raid. I do not as of yet feel that I am missing anything but that could change when I hit 70. The raiding issue is something I have seen for months now (being a relative noob, I am sure it goes back years). I am a very busy person in real life, and probably will never have the time to regularly participate in raids. I have 2 children with another on the way in July, I am a full time college student (summer off thankfully), I work full time, and am married with many other obligations. Some of us just don't have the time to put into a video game. Compare me to the 17 year old who lives at home with no responsibilities. He can play WOW 18 hours/day if he wants. You are right, there is no casual raiding on WOW. The guild I am in is just now starting to raid. They just attempted (lol) Zul'Gurub and completely failed. I did not go with them as I was at work, but I heard the horror stories. I will probably only have one level 70 toon before I eventually quit WOW for something else. I feel bad for the people that become consumed with getting the best gear in a video game and forget that the real world is still out there. I love playing video games, but a reality check is needed from time to time, and I do not see raiding as being anywhere near conducive to having a life outside WOW. Sorry for rambling, but this is kind of a sore subject for me...;)


@Arawn...I'm glad my thought do ring true for someone other than myself. I wasn't trying to piss-and-moan about the game, just relate a small epiphany that just hit me out of my experiences in Kara. I like PVP now. I especially enjoy the freedom of changing my spec to suit myself and how I approach my role in combat.

@Hunter...Thanks so much for the compliment. It's much appreciated. Congratulations on the baby. Your life sounds very busy - like many adults with families, and I don't think WOW raiding blends too well with our situations. The sadder things is that there are people who want to raid and can raid, but they're not being taken in Kara initially because they didn't happen to role one of the golden classes. And when the groups are 10-man small, a bit of favoritism is mingled into roster selections making it even harder for them to be selected.

Last night I saw a hunter in our guild ask three times in chat to be included in the raid. I didn't see any response to the request. Yet I was asked, someone who hadn't asked to come and was actually already in AV. At first I didn't see them ask me so I didn't reply until I guess it was the second request. I went because they needed a Warlock's DPS and I'm new and want to help out.

I had fun and saw even more of the content that I had previously. But I felt bad for the people who wanted to come and couldn't. Guess it was my lucky night because we didn't stay in there too late and I got epics. :-)


Excellent post!

It really is refreshing to see calm, rational analysis of the current endgame issues. I plan on giving Kara a shot when my guild is ready, but I have no ambitions to see anything beyond a 10 person instance. I just won't have enough time to give the proper level of dedication to the guild, so eventually I'll let somebody else go in my place.


Thanks Sinker. I have to admit for someone who had denounced raiding that it is fun to see the content. The boss encounters are clever even if the trash isn't. It's really too bad that it's out of the reach of many players.


I completely agree with that. I would love to see some of the end game stuff, but probably never will (see my previous post as to why). I just hit 60 with my hunter and decided to finally try outland after my guild was bugging me to go there. I step through the portal, and voila....I see a pit boss demon like creature and think, wow this is cool! I wish Bliz would have made the end game more tailored to the individual, rather than solely for the group. Sometimes it is a personal choice to solo a game (or parts of it), while other times we just cannot find a good group, don't have the time to run through a huge raid, etc...

I can only hope that 1) someone from Blizzard reads blogs once in a blue moon and wakes up, or 2) a MMORPG comes out that allows the solo player to enjoy the end game as well, not just work our *$# off for 70 levels only to be left on the sideline at the end because of real life. I am not bitter about this, just hoping for something more....


BTW, in regards to the hunter asking to join the raid - maybe I am different from other people, but I would not stay in a guild that ignores its members as you mentioned they did in your post. Time to find a new guild...


@Hunterman...I felt bad myself for her. I don't know if they didn't see her asking but the request to me came just a couple of chat lines after. I don't think it was intentional, but I do think that there are golden classes for raiding and the trash encounters here and there designed to make you bring along those other classes don't work. If fact, I've seen those outcast raiding classes like Rogues and Hunters brought in just for those contrived encounters and then replaced. It's really poor raid encounter design on Blizzard's part.

Said Hunter was invited to the raid the next day and was with us until we left off for the evening.


Saylah, I see up above where you say that people who didn't roll one of the "golden classes" or refuse to be pigeon-holed into a certain role, i.e., droods either Moonkin DPS, Bear Tank, or Tree heal...forget about that kitty form you have. That's why we have rogues...and oh yeah, we don't really need you to tank, either, because the warriors would have a fit if we went to you, and well, Moonkin DPS is nice, too, but, we have warlocks and mages for that...so, how's about you respec and give us another tree...

I found some of this elitism, classism, not sure exactly what it is in my guild the other day. Guy was looking for some DPS for Shadow Lab and I asked no fewer than 3 times to be included in the party. So, I call him out in guild chat about it and he whispers to me, "What spec are you again?" I reply "Feral, with a concentration in DPS"...and he goes on about Moonkin and that in a 70 instance you need a ton of DPS, blah, blah, blah...well, I went with another part to BM, admittedly not one of the more difficult instances, but still, you need a ton of DPS in that one, especially on that second boss and I led the group in Damage dealt, again, for the second night in a row...

Eh, I really wanted to raid, but after reading this post, I might see all of my hard work and research (yes, really!) to gear up for pewpew Kitty DPS for naught...*sigh*


@Shawn...Keep trying. You may not get into the raids in the beginning where the guild is learning how to handle each boss. However, once it's on farm status most guilds start taking anyone who is attuned as long as they have the primary roles covered.

Don't get discouraged based on anything I've written. I've been playing since release and am rather jaded by all of it at this point. Although I'll standby what I've written as pertaining strong truths, it doesn't mean that every guild is this way. Yet, it's too bad that you're seeing it in 5-mans :-(

Two things are at work when this happens. First thing is player ignorance. They maybe stuck on what a class used to be like and are unwilling to acknowledge change. The other is fear of failing. We've all wasted hours of play-time with scrubs in PUGs which leads some people to swear off experimenting or rolling with people they don't know. For them, it's safer to take the golden classes with cookie-cutter builds.

Our main tank for Kara is a Draenei paladin. How's that for breaking the mold? But he's also the guild master so... LOL Funny and sad this is that we do best when he's the tank and we NO issue holding aggro. He's never lost aggro on a run that I've been on. We also run with a DPS kitty as off-tank who does quite well too. I think this success is due in part to the guild leader knowing the boss strategies inside and out, and he ensures that each raid member has read the information posted on the forums and watched videos of the boss encounters.

So don't give up. You can also change guilds. :-)


Perhaps I sounded a bit more morose that I meant to in my above post. I'm still smarting from the Feral droods can't DPS comment. Honestly, it was just that one guy and a couple trolling posts in the druid message board that have me a bit on the defensive. The rest of the guild has sort of left me be as far as the pewpew kitty DPS thing. The guild is good. It's just that one guy. I've tried various things as a drood; healing, tanking, and now the kitty DPS. So far, I've had the most fun mangling and shredding mobs to death before they can get two hits on me. My new challenge to myself is seeing how low my health can be and still kill a mob without healing myself. It's currently at about 1500 health and I can take out a mob with 6500 health. :-) As I said, it's not the whole guild. They've been good about things and as of right now seem committed to being a "casual" raid guild. Thanks for the words. :-)


Good and keep at it, Shawn. Please stop by and post a comment even if it's off topic to let us know how it's going.


Went down the rabbit hole on Tuesday for the first time. It was quite interesting being in the party. I was geeked and nervous all at the same time. I had never raided, not in a party that was well organized or anything like that, only one or two PuG raids on LBRS, which ended badly, as I'm sure you understand. I didn't want to do anything stupid to wipe the party. On a positive note, I didn't wipe the party. On a negative note, we had some issues with both Moroes and Maiden and didn't get past either of them.

Things started off promising. We blew past Attumen and his horse and continued to progress pretty nicely up to both Maiden and Moroes. Our first Maiden attempt we got her under 40% and then wiped. Moroes was just a mess and each successive attempt got more and more disorganized, but that might have been because it was late.

Still, I had fun and can't wait to try again...and I was viable DPS...when I wasn't laying as a corpse because my healer forgot that I was the one garroted. LOL.

Yeah, same here. I was part of a casual adult guild and we often started with 35 and got people as they logged. TBC killed that. I did rather well with my druid healer or lock and barely had to farm consumables. Now people must be prepared to each raiding day, that includes top-notch gear, acquired from different sources (PvP, Arena, Crafting, etc), consumables (healers often drink 20 mana pots in a raiding night) and you need a A+ team to rule content. Each player that bites the dust is another endless sequence karazhan raids to gear replaces (specially if they are tanks or healers). And let's not even start with "raid composition". Gruul, say bye-bye to your rogues and enhance shammies, grab the mages, hunters and locks. For Mag? Yeah, grab those 4-5 locks to make it easiers and say bye bye again to the rogues. For HKM, rogues, you are welcome to down the priest easily. Crazy, man.
It's over for me.

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