« Ironic Patch Name - Before the Storm | Main | Been Sick - No Game Play »

December 11, 2006

Comments

darrenl

I understand where you're coming from for EQ2..there is a non-god-like feel to the whole game. But do you really want to feel like a god? In a game like EQ2, i.e. high fantasy, the players are usually just mortal heroes who battle against creatures with the powers they have. In rare cases are those powers god-like in nature. Yeah, the graphics in WoW probably lend themselves to a more suspension of disbelief.

Now, I would love to see an end-game where your character becomes god-like and you start another leveling process (maybe impact non-god players).

There are large mobs out there, like the giants in TS. I also hear that some of the dragons are quite large as well.

You are right though, you hardly ever hear boss "name dropping" in EQ2 as much as you do in WoW. We all what I'm talking about when I say Ony, or Vael...but there really is nothing like that in EQ2. Mind you, I have played WoW going on 2 years now, so I'd better know some of the end game baddies. I'm sure we'll start coveting bosses once we get into the endgame of Eq2.

Asher

Part of it, I think, is the lore. It's something you really can't ignore, as it emanates from the quests you do or the encounters you run through with your mates.

There is a surprisingly rich history and story behind WoW. I've played EQ and EQII a little, but it felt hollow in comparison. And I have to say I prefer the art and graphics of WoW to EQII, even if it's less realistic...perhaps because it is.

MrrX

You're on to something here. I think you're describing a side-effect of the eternal developer quest for a balanced game where no class is too powerful, and all encounters provide the required amount of challenge.

Designing it like that removes the ability for you to feel like a hero.

Now, on the other hand, walk through an area you have greyed out, find a struggling group of players, and help them out. Now, you can feel like a hero. But that's still a much different experience than killing the big bad bosses.

Saylah

Darrenl - I never thought that I wanted to feel god-like. It hadn't occurred to me on a conscious level until it wasn't there. :-) When I step out in my Warlock with full T2, epic trinkets and rare enchants, I know that I am something to be feared. The armor itself looks fierce. My weapon is monsterous and it glows. So I look and feel like something lethal. The inherent power of my class and the awesome looking armor sets really lend to the feeling of power. I've seen level 50+ people in EQ2 and quite frankly, they don't look all that hot. But I'm not complaining this is just something that I noticed and I think it was intentional on Blizzards part.

Asher - I think you're right, it's partly to do with the rich lore in WOW. But I'm not much of a fanatic or follower of the lore. But I'm getting the impression that they made their legends a bit bigger in WOW. It's like high fantasy super-sized, which we all know is an unfortunate craving for excess in our generation. I guess the excessive side of me like it. :-)

MrrX - I think you're right to a degree. Overall, the classes might be a bit watered down in EQ2. EQ2 is probably balanced on the low end of the scale and WOW on the other. And there is no right or wrong end, it's just different.

So I'll repeat myself and say that one day, if there is an EQ2 + WOW, I will personally be in MMO heaven!

wolfgangdoom

I think awe inspiring would be the words I would use to describe the feeling you are speaking of. I remember the first time I ran into a rogue wearing full Epic gear; I was mesmerized. I remember longing for my first firey enchant long before I even knew what it was called just because it looked so cool.

I never got that awe inspiring feeling until well after I dinged 60 in WOW because until you start getting Epic drops, your character looks like a hobo. With that being said, the level cap in EQ2 is 70 right? So it makes sense to me that a 50's level character would look like a bum.

I believe the term used to describe your overall power is your meta level. WOW does a great job of providing gear that allows your character to become immensely powerful even at a low level. My twink warrior is now at level 38 and with the gear I have, I can solo up to 4 mobs of my own level and still walk away thinking pwned.

darrenl

So Lauren, if Sony made the equipment look more deadly and/or powerful, would this resolve the issue for you? I agree that the level 70 look to EQ2 characters does not look as powerful as the 60 WoW characters.

Look and feel is important to most players..gives them that sense of accomplishment and, like you said, of power. If thats missing from EQ2, then Sony should do something about it.

Saylah

Wolf very eloquently added more of the sense that I was reaching for - awe inspiring. The first time my son saw my Archanter in AC@ she was only level 25 or so, but she had this huge soulbound weapon by her side and her armor was gleaming. He said, "WOW, what is that??" It was all it took to get him hooked. I looked the part of someone who could kill with lethal precision. Same thing happened in WOW months later. I was there first and he sees one of my pimped out toons and that's really all it takes for him to get the fever.


Like AC2, the WOW armor and weapons are bigger than life. They look lethal, dangerous - forged from blood and iron, whatever... you get a complete thrill from wearing the pieces. You feel special even though thousands of other players are wearing the same thing. It still looks bad-ass.

When I contrast that with EQ2. I couldnt tell you what my staff even looks like. It's uncommon and has nice stats but you don't even notice it on my body. It's mine. I spent a nice chunk of gold on it. Yet I still can't tell you what it looks like because is not memorable. It's nothing more than a stat to me. Whereas, I've known people to wear items with lesser stats just because the item looks cool, and in turn, they feel cool wearing it.

Another aspect is the combat. When I fight low-level mobs as I've done in both games for farming items, there is a distinct difference. In EQ2 the mobs die. I use my normal spells and they just die a little faster. In WOW, if I go shadowbolt something that is many levels lower than me it's like WHAM. I hear the concussive sound of landing the hit and the mob doubles over with a thud. When large mobs hit the ground, the earth shakes and dust rises when they fall at my feet. I'm trying to think, but I don't believe I have anything that will 1-shot a mob on this toon in EQ2.

It's a combination of what I look like (armor and weapons), how the mob looks and behaves (armor, weapons, size, skills, combat behavoir) and how all of that comes together in a combat situation.

darrenl

Dear Sony,

Please hire Lauren as a game developer.

Thank you.

Samownall

LOL I only feel God Like when I do huge dmg :0 This is only because I never kill anyone :) Great blog btw - give me some feedback on how to improve my fledglign blog pls :)
http://worldofwarcraftguru.blogspot.com

Brinstar

I think this is very much a case of "your mileage may vary" because for me, WOW does not have this "god factor" you speak of.

Admittedly, I'm only level 34, and have yet to do an instance "properly" (My character lives on an old server, and finding a group that doesn't want to get a high level player to run them through is difficult), so I maybe I need to play a bit more to experience what you have. I've been trying to get a group for Gnomer before I become too high level for it, but even with the new LFG system, I haven't been able to find many who want to play the instance the way it was meant to be.

In WOW, I've never felt powerful or influential. At this point, my experiences of instances (Deadmines, BFD, SFK, Stockages, Gnomer) have been rather mediocre and it they did not require intense tactical skill usage that you've described. When I complete quests, none of the NPCs remember who helped them. There is no continuity.

So this heroic feel has been markedly non-existent for me in WOW. I remain hopeful that it will become as epic a game as other people seem to believe it is, so I continue playing on. Plus, I'm close to acquring my mount.

Saylah

Hi Brinstar, I'm surprised and sorry to hear that, because if you're not getting that power rush from the game, you're missing one of the best things WOW actually has to offer. To me character development is light, crafting is very weak and end-game is a choice between two rat-n-cage options. So you're supposed to be lovin what you're doing right now. :-)

What class are you and what is your spec? This is a game where your spec can completely break your game experience. If the spec doesn't match your playstyle and gear, you're screwed, and you'll always feel like you're crawling up hill backward. I hope you see this and respond 'cuz where you're at now is the meat and joy of that game.

OneDruid

One of the biggest rushes I had in WoW with my druid was from a scripted event. In Zul'Furrak, a high 40s five man instance off the Tanaris Desert, there is an Aztec-like pyramid (steps leading up.) When you fight your way to the top, you release 5 NPC adventurers from their cages. They ask you to escort them out. When you turn around to head back down, a group of trolls spawn at the bottom of the pyramid. Then another. And another, and then about 15 more groups. There are now about 60-70 creatures between you and getting out.

My group was staring into the abyss and collectively agreeing we were doomed. And we went down anyway with the 5 computer controlled NPCs backing us. Twenty minutes and a mountain of corpses later, we were somehow, miraculously alive. I never fought so hard, so fast, so blindly in my 8 year MMO career and the thrill of winning was immense. And then the next twist came. Which I won't mention because you need to experience it yourself.

There is a difference between feeling godlike because you have a shiny trinket and feeling godlike because...well, you just did something godlike such as kill 75 trolls without stopping to rest because you had no choice.

If you're not feeling godlike, is it because the game doesn't offer it or because you didn't earn it?


One Druid, Many Worlds
EQ1, EQ2, WoW

OneDruid

Wanted to bring this back to EQ2:

If you want to feel godlike, try the solo instance in the Splitpaw Adventure Pack.

The Arena instance sends waves of increasingly difficult mobs at you. When you defeat the final boss mob at the end, you get a nice equipment upgrade and a trophy to hang in your apartment. This is an exciting event that gives you the "wow" feeling.

The Ark of Harclave actually makes you a god! Half way through the zone, you are imbued with god like powers that allows you to take on mobs meant for a group of adventurers. Good fun.

There is a third solo instance that is just a fun dungeon crawl.

And when all three instances are finished, you get a L20 spell and a charm slot item that allows you to port there anytime.

All these instances scale to your level if you are between 20-50. Classes that don't solo well tend to find them more frustrating than entertaining.

But if you are looking for that rush of godlike good gaming, I recommend these highly.

Saylah

One Hundred Trolls, that quest can be complete elation or a huge defeat. I've done it a few times. The last time was on my priest and the group I was with that day was so on it's game, we sailed through it. You're right when you say that completing those types of quest give you that god-like rush.

I'll definitely look into those solo instances. Are they all in Splitpaw? I'd hate to have to buy an expansion just for that content. I'm very good at soloing and it's my preference. I've done a couple of solo instances to farm uncommon drops.

OneDruid

Yes, all three are in Splitpaw. Its an Adventure Pack so I think it's only $5. You have to fight through a solo zone to get to the quest hub zone, so even more solo fun.

Check out an overview here: http://www.eq2i.com/articles/Splitpaw_Timeline

Brinstar

I'm a Affliction Warlock living on a PvP server. I had to go with PvP because my BF and his friends were on the server, though I really wanted to play Undead (I am a Human), and I knew that WOW's PvP system did not appeal to me.

I really think it's just the groups that I've found myself in, or groups that I've been unable to find that have influenced how I've experienced the game so far. If I keep looking and trying, it will get better.

Being run through dungeons was frustrating for me because I really want to learn how to play my class properly. Not having a challenge there removes the learning experience, though the people doing runs -- in some cases friends of the BF, in other cases being frustrated LFGing and stumbling upon a lowbie group with high level runners -- mean well. I think it's a difference in how long people have been playing. WOW is still relatively new to me, and all those others are working on multiple alts because they have got their main to 60.

Warlock is the only class in WOW that appealed to me right from the get-go.

Though dungeons are the meat of the experience, I've at least found good times in exploration, and quests that get me to explore.

Saylah

Ah, I get where you're coming from. The Warlock is a great caster class and probably a bit over powered. You miss so much of the game and enjoyment when people want to put you on rails and drag you through everything. As you said, it's old hat to them but not to you. You might try just soloing more? The warlock can easily take on 2-3 mobs lower than you and 1 to 2 your level on higher. Most of the quests can be solo'd so I'd do more of them and less of the instances, or must mix it up more. You really learn the strenghts and weaknesses of your class when you have to survive on your own. It can't be much fun having level 50s and 60s dragging you through the content.

I had that done to my Warlock when she was level 58. Until I'd solo'd and 95% of the way up. I only did group quests and instances occassionally. However, our guild was in MC at the time and only 1 Warlock in the guild so they kept urging me to hit 60 when I was comfortable with my own pace of leveling, them messing with my crafting and just buzzing around. Finally once I hit 58 they just grabbed me and raced me through dungeons for gear and got me attuned to MC and Onyxia in one weekend. I can't even remember what I did or how I did it when it came time to roll and alt, because I'd been raced through it. On the flip side I showed up in MC and got lots of nice loot. :-)

It's nice to play with friends but if their pace isn't yours then you need to make time to do it your way, and PUGs totally suck so maybe solo some - quests and mob grinding and then do instances with your friends.

Adele Caelia

See for me it is the total opposite. I could never get into WoW. I could only play it for a couple of weeks at a time and I would have to go back to EQ2. WoW was too easy for me, and once the trinkety stuff wore off I would need to return to Norrath.
EQ2 has tons of lore, and the lore is all through out the game if you read the quests. Also in EQ2 I can become easily immersed because you keep seeing the same NPCs as you grow higher in the game, and they remember who you are and how you helped them. You begin to feel a part of something.
When I played WoW the community always seemed so jumbled and not very nice and hard to mesh with as well. Maybe, not saying you are one of them, but maybe since WoW does have a lot of younger players they have to have that feeling of being God like. In EQ2 you are meant to be a hero, not a god. The armor does get better looking as you reach the 70's, but I have to agree it could be a bit more impressive.
As for video's the raid mob videos are all over youtube, and the raid mobs are VERY hard to beat and do take strategy and tactics. I guess people just don't name drop in the game because it isn't that type of community. Although generally after a guild first beats a very hard raid mob everyone will know about it, but afterwards no one keeps talking about it.
I guess each game is different and has its good and bad qualities depending on the person you ask. Not every game is for everyone. WoW couldn't keep me interested but obviously it has been a great game for tons of people.
Another thing with the raiding in both games, EQ2 you raid from early on, and WoW you don't raid until 60, so perhaps since raiding has been a part of the gaming experience through every level in EQ2 it isn't as big of a deal as it is for wow players when they get to level 60 and can finally raid?

The comments to this entry are closed.

The Smithes

  • coming soon...