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April 17, 2008

Comments

Thoms

There's also the weird concept of being alone together... like when going to see a movie. Going alone is just not the same as going with friends. You're still quietly sitting in the dark, staring at the screen. But the experience is different!

Mallika

"Speaking for me, the attraction of MMO is the introduction of the non static behavior of other players, for one."

That's a major reason for me, too. I like knowing that the economy is dynamic, that the item I put up on the broker/auction/market was bought by another player, that prices fluctuate based on supply and demand, and that one day is different from the next because of other people.

As they always say, the best thing about MMORPGs is the community--and the worst thing about MMORPGs is the community.

RomaGoth

I am the perfect example of a solo player. One thing that really bugs me when I am playing is when people spam me to group with them. Not people I know, but complete strangers. I will be minding my own business when suddenly I will get a group invite by someone. It used to be this was done by gold farmers and scam artists, but I haven't had that happen in a while (now they just whisper me constantly *arrghhh*). If someone feels that they need help with a quest or something, before just inviting me to group with you, how about talking to me first? Social etiquette is an afterthought in MMO's, especially a game as large as WoW. I also get these sudden invites to join a guild (most of my toons are not in a guild). If you really want me to join your guild, don't suddenly spam me with invites. Talk to me first. Give me a reason to want to join your guild.

Anyway, I do tend to solo most of the time. I do this because 1) I don't have to share xp or loot with other players if I solo, and 2) I can do what I want, when I want, how I want with no explanations. I have found that grouping for quests and such really slows my leveling down tremendously (unless it is one of those group quests that is almost impossible to solo). I can roll through a level or 2/per day solo. Don't get me started on PUG's. *Barf*

Just my 2 cents. :)

RomaGoth

I had this great response but was flagged for spam again. I am really hoping you can get that fixed, I hate typing up some good info and being blocked afterwards....:(

Bartlebe

I have talked about your blog topic on my blog. Just thought you'd want to know.

:D

Khan

Great post! I'm pretty much the same. I play a lot on RP servers and get asked how I can RP when I spend a lot of time by myself. Because I'm always in character. I play my Hobbit burg and I don't need other players dictating the rhythm of combat or whether I fight at all. My burg can be scared, cautious, brave, hungry (he's a hobbit - he's always hungry :) ) and it's all part of the story I make up in my mind. Some times I'm just out to get treasures and pick pockets and other times I want to stab things.

Another thing I'd add is the level curve of a server. There's a natural progression of levels as a server ages. Now, in LotRO anyway, the majority of the population is 50 (the current max level). So there have to be options for solo play - new players will probably, unless they get lucky and get in with a group of other player's alts, have to deal with doing a lot of stuff by themselves.

Anyway, nice post!

*Makes a fort in a conference room at work* :)

Saylah

@Thoms...That is a very good point. I'm one of those people that won't go to the movies alone but it's not like you socialize while you're watching. What your comment really reminded me of is that nice quiet which can exist between really close people where you can be in the same room doing something completely different and not talk but enjoy the company. :-)

@Roma...Got you out of the spam bucket. Soloing to level is one of the things WOW did amazing. I'm not sure they would have reached the same level of success had the used the most group mostly mentality. Even today it's clear that the group content is less frequently used than Blizzard wants/expects, including the 5-mans where it can't only be the time factor.

@Bart...Thanks, I'll stop by and give it a read.

@Khan...Thanks! I hadn't thought about what happens when the majority of the population has moved toward the upper levels and new people still come in and need to level. For this reason it makes sense for games to provide solo leveling content and amazing that it's taken this long for it to become standard fare.

chris

I enjoy soloing too, for many of the reasons others have listed. For me, a lot of it can be summed up by saying I want to accomplish things by myself. Nothing annoys me more than a level 10 guildie asking for level 70 help (and by "help", we of course mean "do it for me") running Dead Mines. Kids these days!! Why back in the old days...

I joined an active raiding guild for a while -- lot's of Kara... I was in the permanent ZA group, etc. It was fun (sort of). It was good to see the 'end game'. But I'm happily soloing some horde alts now, which I enjoy much more than raiding.

Caira

When I first started WoW, I was rather clueless. I'd rolled a dwarf hunter and didn't have a great idea about what I was doing. Gear choices and talents etc. were, for the moment, not topics I had a lot of experience or interest in. I was leveling slowly, but hunters have the advantage that they're generally functional even if the brain behind them isn't.

I managed to get to the Loch Modan elite ogre group quests, and figured I'd group up to get them done. The grouping process (and the people in the group) were some of the worst experiences I'd had in the game up to that point. As clueless as I was, they were worse: sloppy, slow, ignorant of things even I understood at that point. Via some miracle, we got the quests done, and I was happy to go back to soloing.

Later, I rerolled on a new server, joining a guild. Random pugs and guild groups both gave similar experiences: people who play slower, or have different objectives, or are clueless. Occasionally you find a "with it" group, but those are few and far between. But most are people you group with who, instead of running from quest to quest to get things DONE, stop and chat, or rummage through bags, or wander off sightseeing, then yell at you for leaving them behind (or just dropping group).

I've rerolled on a number of servers in the intervening 2.75 years, and I always solo to the max level, because no matter if the server is established with few low levels, or new and everyone is leveling, there are very few exceptions to the (IMHO) poor questing skills of the majority of the population as related above.

These days, I won't even run leveling instances either. It's a waste of time. I know a LOT of people who will stand around in a city for hours (sometimes days) trying to get a pug to run Wailing Caverns or Blood Furnace and *not just level past them*. It's not to "experience content" either - some of these are people who have played the instances in question to death.

The only time I will group up is if there's a mob that a couple of people in the area seem to need for a quest, then it's only an ad hoc "group up, kill named, disband" instead of waiting for 3 or 4 people ahead of me to off the mob then wait for respawn, rinse and repeat. Even less occasionally, I'll help out guildies, but they mostly know that they need to keep up with me - I have a reputation for monomania when questing, who knew? :D

Theory

I agree with what you said about why people like us who like to solo do it. For me it's more that I know the quests already since I've done them before and know what the fastest way of doing them is. Or if it's a new quest that I havent done before I want to do it on my own so I can figure out the best and fastest way for me to do it alone.
I hate when somebody asks me if I want to party up and go do a quest together. Because even though we may be on the same quest I dont like grouping together. I feel like they slow me down, even if that may not be true I just feel like now I have to also pay attention to what they're doing instead of just relying on myself. Unless the quest is too hard for one person to complete I always do it alone.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy the other people there. But like you said I like the fact that there are other "real" people running around, but I still enjoy just doing things on my own.

Michael

I'm going to agree fully with you. This is why I tend to choose a specs in the MMOs that I play that'll make me the least likely to have to depend on folks.

Kudos to you!

O Solo, Me Oh

You really hit the nail on the head for me here *nodding in vigorous agreement*. WoW is my first MMO, and I joined just a year and a half ago, so I am not some uber-player that has been everywhere and played every class and quest and raided til dawn since Day One. I love the solo adventure, and you mentioned liking utility-type characters that are self-reliant...well, I am an ancient player by WoW and most MMO views (42!) and I come from a D&D past, and so for me, my favorite class was always the bard! I loved Blizz's April Fools joke when they said the Bard would be the next Hero class, and sad as well as I knew it was fake. Why not a bard? Maybe in the future. I just loved how this was a true solo class, a performer, who loves nothing better than to roam from town to town, sing other's praises, get in a little trouble, a little lust now and then, then on to the next burg. *That* is excitement to me! But check out the comments surrounding the addition of the class (before most knew it was a joke)...I know it was partly based on the "Guitar Hero" interface (lol), but most folks just plain hate bards...I'll never know why.

Anyhow, I digress. Since I was new to MMOs and WoW, I never had a chance to team up with everyone and "L2P" my class...no one wants to do "old-world" instances, so I soloed my way to 70 with very few instances run. I have learned to play by scouring webpages devoted to the classes I've played, and observing others play. I always cringe when uber-players criticize the noobs -- it must have been nice when *everyone* was a noob, and L2P together...those days are long gone now. So, it's a solo life for me...and I enjoy it! I've been in a nice guild for awhile, but all the nice folks in it got their raid gear on, and now you never see them around anymore. I think the road might be calling this wanna-be bard again...

RomaGoth

Wow, what a bunch of excellent posts!! Who knew that this subject would elicit so many thoughtful responses. From what I have read above, many of you are the people I see running around doing quests and killing things nearby, while I am doing the exact same thing. I also hate being asked to group up for stuff. The only time I truly enjoy it is when I am grouping with people I know and am comfortable with. I did such a thing last night, we ran RFD with me, my brother in law, his friend, and 2 pug's. One of the pug's disconnected about 1/3 of the way in, so we ended up picking up the other pug's friend and finishing the place in about an hour. I ran the place with one of my alts, so I had no worries in regards to what gear dropped or any of that type of thing. It was actually a pretty enjoyable experience, unlike some others I have had in the past with full pug's. I remember last year when I joined a pug for ZF, and the 50 something mage that was in the group had a hissy fit because we did not want her 70 friend to join us. She eventually left the group in the middle of the instance, luckily I had a friend on standby and we finished the entire place. My absolute worst ever experience however, was when I joined a pug for stockades a few months ago. It was my brother in law, his girlfriend, me, and 2 rogues (both pug's). One of them just up and left in the middle of a fight. Immediately after that, the other one ran around the entire instance pulling aggro, ran it all back to us, then left the group. Of course we died not too long after that. I will never know why they did what they did, but it just reaffirms my hatred for pug's. I will solo all the way to 70 without ever running an instance with all pug's. It helps when you also have a 70 of your own that you can farm for gear with :)

I am happy to know that I am not the only one who prefers soloing yet still likes the feeling of having real people running around nearby.

Thanks for the great discussion Saylah!!!

Wunio

I've always been a fan of solo play, and for me it does go hand in hand with my immersion into the game. In real life I don't need a friend with me at all times, and thus in WoW I don't feel any different. I play a 70 Tauren Druid as my main, and I'm often delighted in being able to do group quests by myself if only for the challenge of coming up with a viable strategy for success. I also love being able to just wander about and appreciate the art of the various areas and the creatures that inhabit it. Something that I would have a hard time doing if I had a group constantly wanting to move towards a specific goal.

I've always enjoyed the occasional group with other casual players if only because the interaction feels organic in a rp sense. I've never actively avoided people, but I don't search them at. I love helping the occasional person who is clearly in need, but I myself have only been that person a few times.

The thing that appeals to me most about MMOs is the fact that world is only so static. WoW's holidays and world events make it so much easier to accept it as "real" world because things do change. Where as in a static console rpg you are more or less railroaded into a linear storyline.

Games like Oblivion, Morrowind, and the Fallout series have always appealed to me because they are so free form, but there still is only so many things you can do. MMO's constantly have new things being added, and due to the level ranges each area has premature exploring is hard to do.

Saylah

HAHA. It's good to see other people who are passionate about soloing speak to their reasons. Leveling faster is never my reason although being efficient does come to mind. I don't mind grouping for small very specific goals but as someone already mentioned, people wander off, have to take breaks, go AFK unannounced and just expect everyone else to wait around for them.

There have been times when I've met really good people in a group and they'll send tells whenever they see me online. Invariably, I begin to resent the persistent contact because it doesn't allow the me alone time that I need to enjoy myself. I think I'd be much more suited to a static group of cohorts that quests together on certain days/times then I'd know when I can be on my own. That's how it was in AC2 and when I was guilded in WOW. I knew when the those events were and attended but all the other time was my own to roam the world in my own fashion.

Do you think there's something to the higher level of stress adults experience in our generation (mid 30s+)?? Sometimes I feel like there is so much stress and external over stimuli that when I'm in a game I crave the exact opposite. If this is at all a factor it could explain why people who are more social in real life might find themselves desiring less socializing in games aka produces more people who want to solo.

ToyChristopher

I have always had a strong desire to play mmo's solo also but even more strange a strong desire to play a healing/support class. What you said, "The options when you don’t have to consider the wants of others are much more boundless than when you do, even under the best of circumstances." I love to help others in the game but hate being confined by being in a group.

It's hard being a solo healer and I of course do group up quite frequently but somehow it is just how I like to play.

Jeremy

One of the most obvious reasons people solo is that the computer game industry has developed that mentality. Games are either to be played alone for content, or played AGAINST others in mulitplay.

The same dichotomy exists in the MMORPG world. Soloing and PvP are some of the biggest issues for developers.

Saylah

@Toy...Funny thing is that one of the classes I enjoyed leveling best was my Priest! It is strange to want to be a healer or support class but want to solo. Of course in did the Shadow Priest thing as soon as I could but at level 50 or so I gave it up for Disc so that I could heal people in BGs or help players out while I was out leveling and noticed someone in trouble. I rarely if ever healed instances.

I found being a healer in BGs a lot of fun actually since I still had the freedom to play it my way. No stand here and do "this" only when "that" happens. No OMG why didn't you heal me thru the aggro I pulled and shouldn't have etc.

Yes, wanting to heal but solo is odd, The current implementation of the Paladin is more able to do that than it was back when I was helping my son get thru the final grind on his. It was LITERALLY like watching paint dry. By the time I rolled one it was a bit better. However, the constant battle for balancing a class that can heal with being able to put out DPS always keeps them in the back of the bus so I'm not likely to roll anymore healing classes.

@Jeremy...You think they designed MMOs for solo play which encourage people to solo??? I strongly disagree. I think they were forced into adding more solo content because enough gamers insisted on soloing in MMOs.

Alfred Paul

And here I thought I was the only one with these kind of views. I especially love about the "imagination" part. I was like that when I was a kid, always pretending to a creatively extreme level that I doubt any of my friends would fully understand. In some instances, I am still like that these days, just because I can function better with a good imagination.

Before joining WoW a couple of months ago (yes, I'm a noob :P ), I was a defender (healer class) in City of Heroes, an MMO that will always have a place in my gaming heart just because I'm a comic book fan, and also because everyone's costume is absolutely different. Anyways, CoH forces you to group. And being a healer, I have no choice but to actually group. Even if you're on any other class, you are still forced to do quests as a team. And overtime, because of my playstyle, I found it difficult to play with groups.

This is why I really loved WoW's talent trees. There's always a talent tree in each class that will let you solo upto level 70, to which then you can decide whether you want to be more team-oriented or not.

Because I love to be the healer in the group, but don't want to be bound to it, I chose to be a Draenei Shaman. I'm currently Enhancement for easy soloing, to which I'll most likely switch to Restoration when I'm 70. But at this point, I'm not even rushing to get to 70 as I'm still immersing myself in the world that is Azeroth.

Anyways, you have no idea how glad I am to find someone with similar reasons as to why they like to solo in MMORPGs.

Saylah

@Alfred...Whenever I take any of the gamer personality profiles I shows ups as heavy Explorer and Achiever. I envy you being in the beginning stages of your WOW experience. All the things that annoy me about Blizzard aside, you're in for a REAL TREAT.

I miss that wide-eyed wonder of being in a new game. It's not something that every game will inspire. AC2 and WOW are the only two games thus far that have made me feel that way. I will be playing Warhammer just because I need something new but I'm not expecting to be inspired. I might play Age of Conan just to do something new until WAR but here again, I'm not expecting to feel anything more than having fun whacking new stuff.

The game that appears to have the potential to WOW me with the environment and underlying story is The Chronicles of Spellborn but that games is annoying me with its really long development cycle. It feels like they've been in BETA for a year. I've stopped following the game's progress.

Thanks for stopping by.

_Flin_

I stopped playing LotRo, because at Level 30 I couldn't solo anymore. After the third time logging on and searching for a group 45 minutes without actually PLAYING i just thought: Well, not worth it.

Khan

@Alfred - that's awesome! WoW held my interest for a good 2.5 years. It'll be a lot of fun seeing the different zones for the first time. I still remember entering each of them and thinking "holy ****, is this cool!" Even the Barrens was neat the first time around. They put a lot of thought into each area and it shows.

@_Flin_ - Turbine has been adding steady improvements to solo gameplay for each level set (mainly 30s, 40s and 50s). I'm not sure how well / poorly they did as it's been a while since I've been through those lower-level areas. I recently created a Lore Master alt so I'll have to see how it goes. Most of my server is now 50 so I suspect grouping will be rare for me.

Syah

I didn't know so many people felt the way I do when playing MMOs. I thought of myself being a bit of a social misfit, he he, as I am definitely a hardcore soloer.
In WoW my first character was a druid. I thought this class would be great for soloing all the way through the last level especially with the fact you can increase speed at level 30 (I thought, I will never be rich enough to buy myself a horse and I don't want to rely on my other friends - even if these were RL friends I was playing with - so druid will be my class).
In EQ2 my character is a Necro, best soloing-class for that game. I soloed all the way up to level 70 in WoW and level 80 in EQ2.

I also used to be in a hardcore raiding guild in WoW which was okay as it was always with the same people and combat was fast-paced, as everyone knew how to get through the instance and play together, no people afk or leaving in the middle of it etc. But eventually I got very tired raiding almost every night and decided to quit the game for a while, as well as the guild. The funny thing is, even though I absolutely dislike grouping I have always been in the same guild in WoW since day 1, for almost 3 years in a row. Strange...

Currently I’m playing EQ2. I am also in a guild but only since a month or two (playing EQ2 for 3 years now) and I solo most of the time as even for guild events on the spot you spend time waiting for some others to join, or one of the members is locked out of the instance (happened no later than last night), then some others manifest themselves as they are also on that quest so they’d like to join as well but there is only limited spots then comes the decision who is ready to leave the group for someone else etc. In the end, in one hour time nothing was accomplished. Therefore for someone having only a couple of hours of play in the evening that’s a huge waste of time.
One reason I like to solo is that after a hard day at work dealing with people I want my own space, freedom, calm, relaxing and enjoying moment. I can craft for 2 hours, or gather plants or wander around looking at the scenery.

As others have stated here, I love being on my own surrounded by others. I tried several times going back to offline games without success. The game feels lifeless, no matter how "real" the npc's are looking. Therefore, MMO designers must take this aspect into account as I am pretty sure a very high percentage of players think that way.

@Khan
I quit Lotro about 7 months ago and am currently considering going back. Therefore is that true that Turbine is putting more effort into the soloable aspect of the game? My fear was always that the higher your level the more forced-grouping was awaiting you. If they are changing this I will definitely give it another try.

Khan

@Syah
Yes, at least from the patch notes for the past few book releases, Turbine has made soloing in the 30s on up easier (I don't think they've done anything other than class changes for less than level 30). I have not verified it personally yet, however. I have a new character, a Lore Master, who is currently only level 15. I'll have to see how it goes when I get there. I ran the content prior to the updates and, thanks in large part to friends dragging me along on the book quests, I leveled past the dull areas fairly quickly.

If you'd be returning to LotRO with a character already in the 30s range, you may want to come back for a month and try it out. If not, maybe poking around on the web will get info on what the consensus is about the changes before making the leap back in.

Hope that helps! Happy hunting!

~ Khan

Saylah

We all knew that others liked soloing but it still funny and reaffirming to hear that we have similar reasons beyond PUG drama.

@Syah - You mentioned about needing your own space after working all day. I used to try to explain that to people in the early days of playing AC2. My professional life tends to be very stressful - full of things I must do. You come home and you have things you must do for your spouse/mate and family. By the time I sit down to play a game, that last thing I want are more "must do" lists. Playing solo frees you from much of that - do what you want, when you want and how it pleases you to do it. If you can't please yourself in a game aka virtual world, then really what the hell is the point?? :-) Welcome aboard the solo player train.

Do I enjoy socializing while playing? I sure do, just doesn't mean I want to play "with" the people I'm socializing with all the time. My regular readers will cringe reading this again but give me WOW + EQ2 and game over, I'd be set for life! Seriously - Give me WOW leveling, PVP and options to raid with combined with EQ2 class diversity, crafting, player housing and mentoring so I could play with new players without ever re-rolling unless I wanted to! What more could I ever need in a game??? NUTTIN!

Diva's of WOW

I started playing WOW a few months ago and I mainly solo when I play. I like relying on my ow abilities but when asked I'll usually join the group if I have time. I don't like being tied down and I've found that a lot of guilds have requirements that I can't meet. I play games because I enjoy them but I don't want to feel as if I have to play it. Some of the guilds I've looked at require you to be on a certain amount of time weekly.

A few weeks ago I rolled a few Horde toons mainly because my Alliance hunter was always getting whispers from people asking for help. As soon as I logged on someone was waiting for me to help with a quest. Sighs. I don't mind helping others but I consider my gaming time as "me time" I don't always want to group. I do so much of that in the real world. I guess I look as gaming as my one time to be selfish and do things that I want to do, lol.

Saylah

@Diva - I so hear where you are coming from and it's not a bad thing. I really do believe that creative nutcakes aside, the frantic pace and stress of our daily lives, is driving more people to seek alone time during the leisure activities such as gaming.

I have days when it feels like the world is banging at my door on all sides. The last thing I want when I sit down for a little escape is the same thing but from strangers. Finding a good balance is essential. A few people to chat with, group or pass the time with when you're feeling social, while still maintaining plenty of breathing space.

*Pats shoulder* You are definitely, NOT alone in how you feel. {{{Group Hug}}}

Karen

It's so refreshing to know that I'm not the only one!

I'm a primarily solo play for a number of the reasons mentioned above....embracing my own imagination, going at my own pace, being self-reliant, etc. I absolutely detest team sports (no, I'm not a couch potato...I'm a very active second Dan in TKD), and therefore have no intention of engaging in e-team sports! :) I just don't like relying on other people for my successes, and conversely, I really don't like having someone else's success relying on me. In other words, I don't like being let down, and I also don't like letting any one else down. (Yes, I would genuinely rather fail based on my own merits than win on someone elses). And since we're all human (or gnome or whatever), it's bound to happen sooner or later. That's not to say that I won't lend a helping hand to a passing stranger in the game, but no, I'm not going to stop what I'm doing to go DPS your instance.

In addition, there's also that work/stress factor that I think someone mentioned above. I already have a day job that, while I love it, has plenty of meetings, appointment, and projects not necessarily of my choosing. My time there belongs to the company, and they pay me for it. But after I go home and get on WoW, my time is exactly that...MINE! I'm not about to turn my free time into an unpaid repetition of my work time, and I'm certainly not going to answer to someone else. Think about how ridiculous "scheduled gaming" sounds....can you really schedule fun? ;)

Tim

Yes soloing is where it is at. I solo because I dont like being told how to play or spec my toons. I like to take my time. I like to do all quest in an area before moving on. I will group with people but I do not go looking for them either. If they ask and I am not really busy I will. Wow could give us the best of both worlds really. Make all the instances scale to how many people are in the group. I have to admit I would love to see the group content but in the end its not the end of the world if I dont. Glad I am not alone.

Tesh

I'm glad I found this. I'm a game artist and lifelong gamer. A large part of why I play games in the first place is to get away from people. I love my wife and two year old girl very much, but dealing with most other people is very wearying. Games let me step aside and disengage from stressful situations, at least for a little while.

Still, single player games can scratch that itch for the most part. The trouble comes when I find an MMO that intrigues me. I absolutely loathe being forced to group for any reason. If I choose to play in a group, that's one thing, but when a game design forces grouping for no other reason than "it's an MMO, stupid", it's a massive failure of design.

I think the "MMORPG" nomenclature has unnecessarily hobbled the industry. (Much like the ESRB term "Mature", but that's another rant.) If these game universes were marketed as "persistent online worlds", not only would it be more accurate, but it would take the multiplayer mentality out of the marketing and design focus.

A well-designed persistent online world will inevitably attract solo players and those who want to play in groups. Content must be included for both.

That's especially important as developers try to grab the "casual" market. This group of people (with disposable income) who have families, jobs and lives aren't interested in part-time jobs playing a game. They are interested in well designed fictional worlds that feel alive, that they can partake of and participate in at their own pace and for their own reasons. (Bartle's Explorer/Achiever, exemplified.)

Persistent online worlds are a fascinating gaming phenomena. Why unnecessarily limit your audience and player base to the hardcore grouping players?

Kymeric

One of the reasons I find myself soloing a lot is because I actually want to explore the game. If you aren't in the first generation on a new MMORPG (or new expansion), then most of the people you run across have either done the content before, or read the wiki, or have a high-level guildmate who will show up soon to run everyone through the content.

I'm the opposite of one of the above posters with his self-acknowledged monomania in questing. I take time to stop and look at architecture in game, to thoroughly read (sometimes re-read) text, run down little map cul-de-sacs that clearly aren't "important" to the story or leveling, and the like. The first time I enter a dungeon, I want to actually see what the NPCs have to say, and be surprised by the critter that breaks out of a hidden alcove when you least expect it.

I hate grouping up with the vast majority of players who already know the content inside and out. "You need to go pull that lever over there." "We need to take the right path, because the left one just dumps you in a random room full of mobs." "Just run past these guys, they're not worth fighting." "You know, your build needs some improvement. You should check the wiki for the "uber-death-speed-farm" build.

Talk about immersion breaking.

Thing is, I really like grouping when it works well. I'd love to group a whole game. If I could only find a group of people who will be on consistently at the times I play, and are interested in exploring the content, not conquering it with as much research as possible.

Alysianah aka Saylah

@Kymeric - I totally understand. I just experienced that this past weekend in EQ2 Ex. I grouped with a veteran trio for a while to do some overland quests and then an instance. They raced through everything so fast I barely knew what the hell was going on.

I got lost a couple of times and the group wiped. They'd unknowingly left me behind trying to figure out which were the quest items to touch in the room and had moved on to a multi-target pull assuming I was there to stun the adds but I wasn't. LOL

I'd never been in that instance before and didn't get to enjoy it at all. I was just keeping my head above water being at the right place at the right time and attacking the correct target because they were moving SO FAST.

The problem is with never grouping so you can take your time is that without a group you can't see the instanced content until you many levels above it. They really need to start making all instance content scale to at least a duo at the appropriate level range.

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The Smithes

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